Comments on: Ageism in tech: the not-so-invisible age limit developers face https://bdtechtalks.com/2019/03/29/ageism-in-tech-age-limit-software-developers-face/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ageism-in-tech-age-limit-software-developers-face Technology solving problems... and creating new ones Thu, 24 Sep 2020 01:35:20 +0000 hourly 1 By: Bob McDonnell https://bdtechtalks.com/2019/03/29/ageism-in-tech-age-limit-software-developers-face/comment-page-1/#comment-12264 Thu, 24 Sep 2020 01:35:20 +0000 https://bdtechtalks.com/?p=4574#comment-12264 In reply to Vladimir Leontiev.

Yes Vladimir it seems that to “Age-neutralize” is perfectly acceptable to the author Howard Williams and most of the tech industry. At the same time most tech companies HR departments will always have some rhetoric on how they embrace a diverse workforce. I agree why doesn’t Howard suggest that people Race-Neutralize, Gender-Neutralize, Sexual Orientation-Neutralize their cv’s?? Answer = Multi-Million Dollar Lawsuit but hey, to Age-Neutralize is perfectly acceptable and non-discriminatory.

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By: Marlon https://bdtechtalks.com/2019/03/29/ageism-in-tech-age-limit-software-developers-face/comment-page-1/#comment-12230 Tue, 22 Sep 2020 08:13:34 +0000 https://bdtechtalks.com/?p=4574#comment-12230 In reply to BeatYouWithMyCane.

I live in the EU, and have top programming skills because I love this job, but despite of this I cannot manage to find prog job for the last two years. I don’t count number of applications anymore, when they realize my age they do amazing things to turn me off making false excuses. One of my favorite is ‘can you learn … in a month, because we will need it’, picking a technology not mentioned in my CV that takes months to learn. After I say yes aI can they don’t call me anyway. To my wonder I realized that hi tech industry is full of lying, bad, dishonest and overall low characters. Situation in te US is much more real, I would say more honest.

In the EU they lay, give false promises, make creative excuses etc because they know very well that they are doing wrong (and they want to avoid me suing them for age discrimination). Funny thing is that I can much easier find a job as taxi driver, doorman and similar no-education position than a highly skilled pro position that requires a lot of knowledge. I don’t understand why in the hi-tech society knowledge society knowledge is actually not so unimportant, but that’s reality. World is not fair

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By: BeatYouWithMyCane https://bdtechtalks.com/2019/03/29/ageism-in-tech-age-limit-software-developers-face/comment-page-1/#comment-8241 Thu, 19 Mar 2020 23:36:02 +0000 https://bdtechtalks.com/?p=4574#comment-8241 This article is very helpful. Up until this year I had no evidence of discrimination as seems like everywhere I work are people my age (54). But I’ve recently landed some jobs with managers a little younger than me and that is where the discrimination lies. Both my managers told me I was their top programmer. That’s never been the problem. The issue is with power. Most younger managers want to force very bad decisions or tech strategies or habits onto younger people so they either look good failing or they can climb the ladder by grooming henchmen that do what they want. That has nothing to do with making good IT planning decisions, projects, or making a business money. It’s just how they see their careers. It’s how they cover for their deficiencies.

Those happen to be the people that hire, too.

The problem with older techies is they don’t fit into that model and most experienced people offer positive improvements to a business organization. When you pierce their bubble managers don’t see it as constructive but very threatening. So it spells the demise of the older programmer. Even if like me you shut up and follow the plan often good or superior work is a threat. The goal often in IT today isn’t to do quality work or innovate its to follow leaderships plan. When it fails they like you to fail with it and experienced people offering solutions goes against the departments corporate culture and internal goals (which must be followed to keep jobs).

What this article helps to do is add more reality to the situation that talented people have….those that have helped other companies succeed bigtime through our experiences using cutting edge tech despite bad management.

To me the solution is obvious. We cannot change the loyalty and grooming that managers only expect to find in fresh new young faces or offshore sweat shops. We can’t change any of that. Those managers will have to follow their own failed paths being closed to experience that might have guided them. That’s the trend in 2020z

What older or experienced techies have to do is play a different game. Besides maintaining cutting edge tech skills and superior results and our talent
base, we have to consider options like remote work which make us more anonymous, consulting by selling our expertise vs contracting which is just coding, and disguising our age completely through many different strategies so we are proven by our quality work alone.

In terms of coping with the increasingly poor short term management people I run across, you cannot effect change there. That’s why it’s best to avoid the diversity solution and work exclusively as an outside contractor there to only code by project then move on. We have to completely forget the long term corporate culture integration idea and just not plan on working for these companies and remain hired guns, cleanup crews when offshore solutions fail, and focus on specific expertise in a valuable technology that young people struggle to perfect.

I think we cannot swim upstream. But we can float beside the current in our own boats and add huge value to the mess that is modern, mismanaged, wasteful technology, at the moment.

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By: steve https://bdtechtalks.com/2019/03/29/ageism-in-tech-age-limit-software-developers-face/comment-page-1/#comment-7761 Wed, 05 Feb 2020 22:25:22 +0000 https://bdtechtalks.com/?p=4574#comment-7761 What stupidity my resume will never get looked at if I neutralize my age. First the application requires dates like when you worked somewhere when you graduated(required fields). It is filtered out long before my resume is sent to a human. The ad says for new grads only. I was layed off not fired my qualifications are inconsequential. I know there is someone in India that will do my job cheaper. I was in a group where the people hated working with these foreign groups that had unrefined skills. The company was basically having us teach them then layed us all off. No one wants to hire me. I teach my son software algorithms he can get a job easy. You think neutralizing your age works that * next to dates on the application says don’t lie or we won’t review your application and if you do lie we can fire you for it.

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By: Dan https://bdtechtalks.com/2019/03/29/ageism-in-tech-age-limit-software-developers-face/comment-page-1/#comment-7330 Wed, 04 Dec 2019 22:43:26 +0000 https://bdtechtalks.com/?p=4574#comment-7330 As an older dev, you can get a look at a prospective company’s age range of current staff and if they’re all in their twenties, encourage them to treat you as a diversity hire. If they don’t go for that, sue them – you’re in a protected class. Also let the young ones know that the culture they’re subscribing to will have them out of work in a few years too and perhaps they should reconsider their shortsighted agendas.

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By: J https://bdtechtalks.com/2019/03/29/ageism-in-tech-age-limit-software-developers-face/comment-page-1/#comment-7149 Fri, 08 Nov 2019 07:43:08 +0000 https://bdtechtalks.com/?p=4574#comment-7149 This is a great article. One thing that people forget, regardless of any other attribute and difference we have is no one and I mean NO ONE is escaping aging. Only youth and inexperience might possibly provide you with blinders to that. So if you are one to overlook someone due to age means you must look at your future self as less worthy. And if you think by then, you will be retired and are just lounging around, then you really need a reality check. Your niavete is showing

Experience/seasoned AND innovative is an amazing combination. My partner, who is over 50 is that. Stays on top of the trends, even more so than some younger counter parts. This 50+ hard working, passionate, driven, person has innovative new ideas all the time and has the solid seasoned experience that can actually drive product to a finish line with reality and solid solutions in check along the way. Risk with know how. It’s like going into battle with a seasoned warrior who knows how to bring something new to game as well. Yes, a company may pay more, but they would get the benefit of two employees in one….a young and seasoned employee in one. But yet due to age, my partner has a harder time moving on to another company from the current job.

I really hope more tech companies understand that they do not have the key to the time machine, that they will keep themselves….and there is true value in diversity of age and experience. And also understand that older workers can bring both experience AND innovation.

And also… Even if a tech company found the key to a time machine that kept everyone Young….. Would you really want to give up all the experience you gained?

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By: Vladimir Leontiev https://bdtechtalks.com/2019/03/29/ageism-in-tech-age-limit-software-developers-face/comment-page-1/#comment-7123 Mon, 28 Oct 2019 15:40:43 +0000 https://bdtechtalks.com/?p=4574#comment-7123 “Age-neutralize your CV”?! Should we also ‘gender-neutralize’ and ‘race-neutralize’ our CV’s while we at it? I mean God forbid we look wrong race and gender on top of looking old.

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